The Commission Code for Success
Does your gross revenue come from commissions, fees, and other types of 1099 MISC income? If you answered yes, then the Commission Code for Success is a podcast created specifically with you in mind. Each episode is designed to deliver a concept or idea that will help you increase your revenue and have more time to enjoy it.
If you are an employee on 100% commission or an independent contractor you are a business owner when it comes to how you go about doing your daily work. The mindset of a business owner puts you in exactly the right spot to maximize your revenue and maximize the impact you have with your clients and customers.
The Commission Code is the library of knowledge and the set of skills you need to grow your business and reach your desires. Please join us and our guests at The Commission Code Podcast! I look forward to seeing you there, I'm your host, Morris Sims.
The Commission Code for Success
Your customers already trust you—why aren't you selling them more?
Discover why your business might be leaking profits despite your best efforts, and how small, strategic adjustments can transform your results. Digital marketing consultant John Wieberg reveals the common "leaky bucket holes" that prevent most businesses from achieving their full profit potential.
The conversation dives deep into one of the most overlooked profit centers in any business: your existing customer base. Once someone has purchased from you, they've already crossed the trust threshold—yet many entrepreneurs focus exclusively on new customer acquisition while neglecting this goldmine. John shares a powerful real-world example of a sauna business missing massive revenue opportunities by failing to follow up with past customers.
Email marketing emerges as perhaps the most misunderstood yet highest-ROI marketing channel available. You'll learn why most businesses approach it incorrectly and how proper segmentation, content strategy, and delivery frequency can dramatically improve your results. The myth that "emailing too often will annoy your list" gets thoroughly debunked, as John explains that relevance and value—not frequency—determine whether your audience welcomes or rejects your messages.
What makes this episode particularly valuable is the practical, actionable nature of the advice. These aren't abstract concepts requiring massive overhauls of your business. Rather, they're strategic tweaks that compound to create substantial profit increases. Whether you're struggling with marketing effectiveness, customer retention, or sales conversions, you'll walk away with specific strategies you can implement immediately.
Ready to transform your business results? Connect with John at ProfitAllies.com, where he guarantees day-one improvements for businesses committed to growth.
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what's going to make this really a good experience for you and good for you and your business?
Speaker 2:anything in particular um no, I think, just covering like that that guidelines, I think we'll kind of navigate through whatever will make sense, just talking about how I help people, and I I'm very much um as much value driven as possible, so I'm not like a big promo-y, I don't have to talk about anything specifically, I'm just talking about how I help people. I think that's mainly number one for sure.
Speaker 1:My main concern is not only that we produce something that's very practical for the audience, but also something that's going to be of value to you as the guest on the show. So that's where I'm coming from, too. With that in mind, let's get a little room tone and we'll get started. Sounds good, excuse me, no worries.
Speaker 2:I usually do the same. It actually helps before I do videos and stuff?
Speaker 1:Oh, it really does. I had a guy on my staff in New York. We were just getting into the whole virtual classroom thing. Quick story I walked into my number two guy's office one day and he and three or four of my team were standing around a laptop computer and a speakerphone. I said what are you doing? He said, shh, we're doing a webinar. Oh really. And we started looking into it, found out what a virtual classroom was really all about and how that works. Went and saw some great actual studio setups, decided we wanted to do that. Built a studio in New York in Sleepy Hollow at the at the office there, nice, 30 grand of New York Life's money went into a wonderful place. It used to be IBM's headquarters. So they already had a studio that was that was soundproofed in the whole nine yards, 30 grand worth of equipment, put it in play, got it going. Five years later six years, something like that we were doing so much of it we had to build a second studio nice another 20 grand or so into that one fast forward.
Speaker 1:I retired, come here and decide you know I'm gonna do a podcast. John, I put together a virtual classroom studio for less than $600 oh yeah, don't take later.
Speaker 2:You can. You can do it really for the cheap, cheap and have it look really great, like your setup looks great.
Speaker 1:But when it? But when it started back, you know I was spending 30 grand a lot of money. Anyhow, that's kind of kind of where it is. So with that in mind, we'll get this thing, get this party started. Sounds good. John Wieberg is our guest today on the Commission Code and we're really excited to have John here. He is a digital marketing consultant and author and does all kinds of wonderful things, but he helps businesses like yours and mine become even more profitable and successful than we were when we started talking to John. So I'm really excited about having John here today to share with us some of the things that he does with his clients. John, welcome to the.
Speaker 2:Commission Code. Thank you very much for helping me. We're going to be dropping a lot of great stuff for people because I'm prepped and I have a lot of energy today, so we are going to get rolling.
Speaker 1:Let's do it, brother. That's for sure. John's got to have a lot of energy because he lives in Minnesota and I understand it snows up there every now and again.
Speaker 1:On occasion, though, just two or three yards at a time, it's a light drift often comes our way Talking to this little boy from Birmingham where when it snows it shows up in the sky and doesn't even stick on the ground. We close schools and everybody rushes to the grocery store to get milk and eggs and bread. Anyhow, john, tell us a little bit about what you do for your clients and how that all comes together.
Speaker 2:You know, the main thing I think that comes to mind and that's the most important is identifying all of the leaky bucket holes. They have, you know, over doing this stuff. For since I was 13 years old, I got started really young. I'm a second generation digital marketer. My dad got me started, probably way too young.
Speaker 2:I found that the vast majority of businesses aren't necessarily doing anything particularly wrong. They just, in their sales process, in their advertising, in their email marketing, there's little tweaks that can be made across all these different areas that substantially change their click-through rates, their sales closing rates and nearly every other aspect of their business. And such a bunch of little tweaks that, over time combined, all it makes a huge difference. A huge difference, especially as businesses scale, especially as businesses want to grow, when you have your email marketing or your advertising or any part of your business not performing at full capacity. This is why the vast majority of businesses aren't exceptionally profitable.
Speaker 2:I think the average profit margin is like 10% or something. It's pretty low, it's pretty bad. It's because you have this business that you're so into and you're working on the business or inside of the business. A lot of business owners aren't on the outside looking in full-time, you know, analyzing from our sales process to our follow-up, to this, to our customer management, to our support. Where can we increase and improve and split test and make all these little areas better? Because that's where I think a lot of profits and scale really comes from and that's why I dive into it and that's what I like to cover and help people with the most.
Speaker 1:Well, I think you hit the nail on the head when you were talking about that. Michael Gerber wrote a wonderful book and in it he says we spend too much time working in our business and we don't stop to get back outside and begin to work on our business. And isn't that so true for business consultants like yourself and me? If we don't stop and look at our business overall and what we're doing, then you know it's going to look pretty bad to those clients out there when we're trying to help them. But I think that's a critical point. We've all got to stop and work on our business from time to time and if you're not doing that regularly, the world's going to pass you by. You're not going to be moving fast enough to keep track of what all's going on.
Speaker 2:And I think my personal opinion this is we'll rough some edges just a little bit is to for most business owners you know, like a lot of the ones I've worked with, you know some of them. When you give suggestions on how to improve or scale or make different changes to their pricing or to their offer or to their website or these different things, I've actually found the vast majority of growth that hasn't happened hasn't been because of a strategy. It's been because of a business owner having almost too much ego and going nope, I own the business. I know better than you, even though I hired you for your consulting to help me out. So anyone who's going or thinking you know I don't need someone to come into my business, I know it best. Yes, you know I don't need someone to come into my business, I know it best. Yes, you know the product best. You know how you help people. You know how much you care and love for your customers.
Speaker 2:But I'm telling you from working with some pretty successful businesses like school, like Alex Ramosi, like Frank Kern, like Marketer Hire, to I've worked with clients, even recently, of people who own gas stations, to people who own, you know, who are lawyers, you name it, the biggest difference in your business comes from getting expert help to come in and decrease time, which is obviously your most important asset you have in life to decrease the time it takes to get further growth in your business and making that all happen much faster and which much higher results. Because of the expertise that is your biggest, most important thing. You can do with extra profit with your capital instead of sitting on it. When you can, you can drop your ego and go hey, hey, you come in here. You improve all of our digital marketing. The world's a difference in I mean sometimes literally 20 minutes of conversation, even if it's a local business. There's a sauna company I should be working with here very soon who builds barrel saunas in Minnesota, builds what, I'm sorry, barrel saunas. What in the world is?
Speaker 1:that, I'm sorry. Barrel Saunas what in the world is that?
Speaker 2:So they build a friend of mine him and his grandpa worked together and they build and sell Saunas that look like almost like a ginormous whiskey barrel.
Speaker 1:Uh-huh.
Speaker 2:And they can sit in your yard, any location, anywhere you want. They're pristine, extremely nice. And I talked to him about delivering them and I started asking him you know, what do you do with your customers after you sell them a barrel? He goes what do you mean? I go. Well, you don't follow up with them. You don't offer a monthly or like a six month service for cleaning and refreshing the barrel, for the sauna, for the wood. You don't offer or sell them anything else. Well, no, we don't do any of that. We just sell the barrel and then we leave. We just sell the barrel and then we leave.
Speaker 2:Oh, what a waste, oh my God. So in one question I come up with, you know, in my head probably five different things they can do to instantly both help their customers and also get a lot more money per barrel they're selling.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm sorry, I'm still kind of slow. Why would I want to buy a barrel? What do I do with this barrel once I bought it?
Speaker 2:This barrel sauna is like any other sauna. You basically place it in your yard wherever you want. If you want really nice skin, you want to go into a nice sauna, hot environment and just sit in there. And that's what we do in Minnesota. We sit in a sauna, We'll sit in there for 150 degrees, 200 degrees, for two, three, four degrees for two, three, four, five hours and hang out and talk and shoot the shit and just relax.
Speaker 1:All right, buddy, I got it. Now I got it. I'm sorry, I didn't understand. Oh, gotcha, you were speaking minnesota and I'm speaking redneck, and you know, I ain't never heard nothing about a sauna. Oh, s-a-u-n-a sauna.
Speaker 2:Yes, oh, I got it.
Speaker 1:Okay, I was trying to figure out what a sauna barrel was. Yeah, got none of them in Alabama. Anyhow, now I understand.
Speaker 2:It's hot enough outside, you guys don't really need sauna barrels, that's right, that's for damn sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you can say that again. In any case, you're right. I mean the whole idea that blows my mind, because when I'm working with somebody and trying to help them understand the sales process which there really is an actual process and they say, yeah, we don't really do much with our clients and that will time out, the sales process is. First steps are build that relationship and develop your trust. Yep, trust, it's a trusting relationship, right? If I've already done business with you, you must have trusted me enough to buy my product or my service. Next time you need something, I'm going to want to be there so that we can do business again because you already trust me. I've already built that relationship of trust. I don't have to do that again. Oh, my, my, let's work with our clients. I mean, it's like you're halfway through the whole process when you're working with somebody that you've sold before. Right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I really. I think the reason why more businesses don't do anything with their clients afterwards is they think that's the end of the customer process. That's the end, the close, of the customer then using your product and service.
Speaker 1:The problem is probably so many people get scared. Oh, that as well, entirely, entirely for sure, yeah, I sold him and if I go back and mess with him and talk to him some more, he'll want to give it back or cancel the subscription, or whatever the case may be. I'm scared.
Speaker 2:Yep, and what people have to realize is what you said is people who actually spend any money with you literally, it could be $7, it could be $1,000, it could be any price are multiple times more likely and easier to both close and will more likely to spend more money with you. Absolutely Like you're saying, it's the number one easiest person to sell to. They've they've made trust with you. And another way I think to think about it is I think we often think of selling to any list or past customers you name it an aspect of selling to them. You're not selling to them, you're helping them get more results. So I have an obligation to actually get my customers to buy other product and services from me because I believe so wholly in my ability to get them results.
Speaker 2:It would be a crime for me not to sell them more because I'm going to actually help them and I think that's what businesses do, especially local businesses, smaller businesses. You go, well, I don't. You know they've already spent this money with me. I don't want to let them off. You know I don't want them to maybe cancel or do something else. I just want to. I don't want to cause any disruption in what I've already gotten a customer, if you've already built that relationship.
Speaker 1:If you've already built that, it really is the beginning of a friendship and there's trust involved Wow, you're in better shape Now. That assumes that you have a very proper ethical sales process and your objective, your mindset going into this thing, is I'm here to help you get what you want. Then that trust gets built and you've got a relationship to be able to build on in the future. But if you go into that with a mindset of I've got to make a sale here because I've got to pay my mortgage, it's all about me and they're just my source of income, then you might have a reason to be scared.
Speaker 2:Right, totally, and I think a way to look at it instead is every customer you get really truly. Your nurturing of them, relationship building with them, everything you may do with them in the future doesn't end, you know, until they die or until they're out of your market entirely. You should always be trying to service, help, guide that customer, which is where, again, upselling, reselling, downselling, for example, like the sauna business you know how many saunas I've been in that could use like some restoring after they've been used for 10 years, 20 years people have them for you know. So there's so many things that you could do. Just for that single example.
Speaker 2:And really one question I asked him of going okay, well, if you did this, you could freshen up the scent. You know, like cause that that sauna smell? People love that sauna smell like the woody kind of fresh, musky woody. It's super nice, um, refreshing, that you know. Replacing some of the boards, you name it.
Speaker 2:So then you help your customer also, because they bought again from you, they're actually more likely again to buy even more from you because you keep. You know, that's actually the thing is that the more money someone spends, the more they actually are investing, not just with you monetarily but almost, almost like on a spiritual, like level, because they're entrusting you with this money to get them the thing they're looking for. And the more you do that, like, we've had customers who've bought from us for 10 years literally since I was, since I was 13, 14, 15, who keep buying because we keep going well, say, for example, business owners. Business owners maybe I sold them on a conversion system or on me managing the email followup, while they still need traffic, so we can still sell them traffic or leads. Well, they have traffic and leads. Maybe they need a better. You keep coming up with ways to service them and that's what this is is truly servicing servicing servicing people as much as you can.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's why you know the. Once you have that relationship started, the next step of the good sales process is to discover what their problem is. You do that by asking a whole bunch of questions, and boy, we could talk about discovery and sales for the rest of the time here Discovery we could.
Speaker 1:Yeah, tell me more, john, about what you do with your clients. If I come to you and I say, gee, john, I'm kind of plateaued in my business, what do I need to do? And I say, gee, john, I'm kind of plateaued in my business, what do I need to do? Where do you start?
Speaker 2:It really goes into the kind of the sales discovery phase. I did consultative selling for Frank Kern, so I'm in the very same realm as you've told me before that you're kind of in so I get a lot of this. It's really truly diagnosing if any customer comes to me across their three main pillars, which is their advertising, their lead generation, their sales process, the process that brings the leads through, and their follow-up. Those are the three main key areas that if you don't have those highly optimized, you're losing multiple times the profit margins you have currently right now and it literally is multiple times the profit margins you have currently right now and it literally is multiple times the profit margins. So, for example, a lot of agencies, a lot of agencies, such as marketing agencies I would consider myself kind of agency ask more more consultative, though right Agencies sell marketing services.
Speaker 2:They have no down south. Just we have a uh, we manage your email list or two, three, four or $5,000. They have no down south. Just we have a uh, we manage your email list. Or two, three, four, five thousand dollars, we manage your ads for five thousand dollars a month. Three thousand dollars a month a great down sell for agencies is okay, you have clients coming in, for example, that cannot afford your higher ticket subscription services, right, so why would you not have a one time payment, smaller, for a course, for them to do it themselves if they can't currently afford your services?
Speaker 2:That's a really good natural downsell and one of the many things just in sales process alone that we would go into and say, hey, let's just say out of 100 leads, let's just say 20% buy from book calls. Let's just say the other 80% don't buy. Let's just say half of those buy your down sell. You have an interesting increase in your profit margins by multiple times and you can liquidate and buy more ads. So that's what we do is we go into business, we take a look at their sales process, their follow-up, their advertising, everything in their business and go in these three pillars. Where can we immediately set up an increase in conversion or profit? And then, after we've diagnosed that, then it's okay. Now how do we long-term make sure this is sustained? And what's the long-term future in each of these three areas? To keep the growth, to keep improving and so on and so forth.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that makes perfect sense and, again, that's the whole idea of consultative selling and it really is the only way to go about doing it. Well, yeah, one of the things you talk a lot about advertising and visibility and being visible One of the things that I find a lot of discussion about online and within my client base, about email marketing. What can you help us with on that one, because I know a lot of folks come to me. I think, morris, I've tried that. I've sent out a weekly newsletter for the past six years.
Speaker 2:Right right.
Speaker 1:Nobody does anything. I never hear anything, I've never sold anything off email, but I keep doing it.
Speaker 2:This is what I hear every day. I hear this every day. By the way you actually I am audience, you don't know this but I am one of debatably the best email marketers on the planet. It's one of the main things I am hired for and I've done some email marketing for some pretty successful businesses for again, since I was very young. So the main things I do if you do email marketing correctly, it is by far across every study, in a case study I've ever seen, period is by far the highest ROI profit margin, both self and analytically. The most profitable marketing there is across any channel, any business, any industry period.
Speaker 2:When done right that's the big caveat is when it's done right Because, like you're saying, most businesses send maybe a promo email, just a selling email. There's no nurturing, there's no segmentation, there's no personalization. There's about we could have a 10-hour podcast just on email marketing, literally every day. Um, there's so many things you aren't doing because, again, you're the business owner. You don't know how to one. Are you an expert copywriter? That alone is like the main element of email marketing. Yet alone, how to structure uh, tone and email. Yet alone, how to structure readability, email ctas, picture rates, the oh, there's so much that goes into it. Essentially, I want you to realize, as listener, you need to double or triple down on email marketing because there is so much more profit in your email marketing and follow-up than there is probably in your own advertising lead generation. On average, most businesses with proper follow-up generate multiple times more back-end sales than their front-end if they manage their email and they manage their list, their leads, properly.
Speaker 1:John, where do you start? I mean, okay, let's say, we got this guy, we'll build our case study here. You got this guy and he's been doing this thing and sending out a newsletter maybe or something on email. He's got an email list of several hundred people. What do you tell him to do first? What do you start? Where do what do we tell in our audience that they should do first?
Speaker 2:the first thing is proper segmentation or separating of leads versus customers. Most leads lists or email laying lists include include both leads and customers. You want to separate the two because, for example, example, if I'm selling a product, say, you sell sounders I don't want to sell the same sounder product I just sold already to someone who purchased. So customers should be sold differently than your leads. Also, they need different messaging because one as we discussed earlier one has built trust with you already. One has not, which means these people need to be nurtured more. You need to focus on building a relationship more. Versus these ones, you can use more salesy language. You can offer more promotionally because they're a different type of customer. They've already purchased, versus just a lead. So first thing is separate the two. Once you've separated the two, what you need to do is realize A, you can email your list every day. This is a big whoa. People go oh, if I email my list daily or even weekly, I'm going to spam them. No, you only spam people if you send them irrelevant, unwanted information. However, if you are constantly nurturing and delivering value and giving to your audience, they don't mind being emailed more frequently. So, number one realize you can email more frequently as long as you're delivering value.
Speaker 2:Now, what is value and how do you actually email these people? There's three different main buckets. There's entertaining, enticing and educating types of content. The vast majority of all of your follow-ups should be both educating and entertaining. Uh, educating means you know, here's all how our product and service works. Here's the types of results you can get.
Speaker 2:Not selling, not selling with those things, mainly just nurturing to bring as much value as humanly possible. You know a lot of businesses sell sell like ebooks for seven dollars or sell different little courses. Give courses away for free, free. Give e-books away for free. Give a lot of this information away entirely for free.
Speaker 2:To nurture and build such a strong relationship with your leads, they naturally want to buy from you because you have overloaded them with free, incredible value. That's the first thing you should do is email often, segment how you email and then, as well, email strongly, mainly with nurturing, with storytelling for entertainment, storytelling, making funny skits, funny videos. There's a bunch of different things you can do in that realm. It's hard to get into because there's a ton, but doing those two things mainly with how you talk to all clients and then occasionally being promotional Selling. Making that change is going to be huge for you, because most businesses when they send emails, they send hey, we have this sale going on. How many times can you send? Do we have the sale going on before? They're not going to click, they're not going to open, they're not going to buy from you, right?
Speaker 1:No, I don't look at those.
Speaker 2:Yep, entertain, not going to open, they're not going to buy from me. No, I don't look at those. Yep, entertain, educate, be funny, build such a strong relationship. Another way to look at it is like think about, like the most memorable super bowl ads you've ever seen, right? So people immediately come up like there's a, there's a budweiser, one of these frogs, there's this one with the horse and the dog that made you cry. You name it, oh.
Speaker 1:I hate the frogs. I hate the frogs. What is that? Oh, I hate that, I do. I sat in line with Andy. It's like no, don't, no, no. Yep, the Budweiser Clydesdales, yep, the Clydesdales Every time time.
Speaker 2:So what you want to do basically in your follow-up is do that, but not not selling, but in nurturing, have such a standout value, just giving to your audience for free, and then you can make that into lead gen to go to a process to book a call to buy from you, etc. But doing that's going to be huge. So, emailing more often, segmenting, focusing entirely on value, and then I mean mainly no copywriting. If you don't know copywriting or you don't enjoy these things, then you must hire it out, because someone who can manage an email list very well is going to make you multiple, multiple, multiple times what you can pay them. For example real, real, quick example I worked for a guy named john cristani. He's one of the top affiliate marketers in the entire world. Uh, he was making, when I was done working with him, between thirty and fifty thousand dollars a day just crushing it, doing impeccable my email marketing. He hired me for he was paying me six thousand dollars a month. I was generating between probably 17 to 30 000 a week.
Speaker 2:Wow, so him paying me six thousand dollars. He's willing to do that every month forever. Because why, why wouldn't he? Yeah, oh my that's, and I emailed two to three times a week only wow.
Speaker 1:But when you're sending out those emails that are adding value and they're nurturing, and we're doing those kind of things to be positive and to give more than we're worried about trying to be a digital billboard, we're talking 500 words, 1,000 words. We're looking at one screen worth 10 screens. Worth what? Help me out here what? I think kind of content, what size content chunk do I need to put into an email?
Speaker 2:I think system you want to mix and the mix should should variate, like, like. Think about your writing to a lover across the seas. You know, sometimes there's probably not a lot going on in your life right now. So you know, I went to breakfast today, I pet the dog, I went for a walk, et cetera, and then sometimes there's a bunch of stuff going on in your life so you, you might write this whole story, long story, about this happened and that happened. You had a party with your friends and you, you, you went golfing, and so I think you have to treat, treat your audience like you're writing one-on-one, which is actually some of the best copywriting advice you can have. Treat your audience like you're writing it to one individual, because that's what you should be writing to your one individual, ideal potential client or customer. To write like you're writing to one person and vary across different email, email broadcast or newsletters or campaigns.
Speaker 2:The length of copy, so the total length of copy, generally I prefer shorter, shorter emails in general, shorter, punchier, personality filled, story filled.
Speaker 2:It could be, yeah, maybe a few hundred words, nothing too crazy.
Speaker 2:Some maybe it's just two, three paragraphs and then every say three, four, fifth email, every third or fifth email, put in a longer one, a much longer storytelling one as well. You want a very length of copy. You also want a very length of stagnation of copy. So, for example, the first line is one line, the next is a little bit shorter, the next is really small, the next is three sentences, the next is just one single word, the next is eight words, and that you keep doing that in your copy because people read and digest and will convert from email like they do if they were reading a text from you or a message from you or a facebook post or some other any other piece of media, which means that not just the words themselves have meaning and change how they feel and interpret the message, but also the length, the length people read it as if you're talking to them so when you stop, like I just did, or you change and use different power, more power, imaginative words, doing these things, people read it as actual dictation audibly.
Speaker 2:So doing that in your copy is I mean it will make any emails you write stand out and perform exceedingly well.
Speaker 1:Wow, that's really cool, john. You reinforced some things that I had been hearing about how to do email marketing well and gave us some new ideas as well. Tell me this, though when it comes to doing email marketing, there are a zillion different providers out there and platforms, from Kit to Kajabi to Active active campaign to go high level to yeah, yep, yep, they all.
Speaker 2:This is a little drum roll. I wish I had a little mini drum with me, I could go. They're all pretty much the same. It's it's what everyone and you'll you'll hear.
Speaker 2:Counterintuitive to this um, what dictates the deliverability and the conversion and the long term retention of your leads? Basically, you want to maximize how much you're making from your leads, as much as humanly possible. Usually the provider does not really matter. What matters a thousand times more is that your emails are so relative, exactly what your audience wants they're. They're generally shorter, they're generally nurturing, they're generally all these things we've gone to. You're emotionally triggering your audience from your emails. That drives them to open and click through your emails more. Because they open and click through your emails more. That always dictates your deliverability and the performance of all of your other email marketing, the sales they get from it. All that stuff comes from long-term lead retention. Long-term lead retention comes from just like people.
Speaker 2:Imagine you're again. You're writing to a lover across the seas or a buddy. You know what type of message would you want from him? What would keep you interested the longest? Well, what if it's information that you know about. It's relative to you, things you want to know about, if it's really really crazy stories, really strong stories. You probably want to read more of his messages. If they change in length, they change in how he writes. It doesn't matter if he sent a what's it called? When you, it doesn't matter if he sent one of those. It doesn't matter if he sent a pigeon. It doesn't matter if he sent a letter, a text, you know. It doesn't matter the format, aka it doesn't matter the provider he uses. It's all the content of the email and that over time you know. The only time you should change or think about using a different email provider is if you get more ability to segment and do more fancy advanced email marketing, but only if you first have this basic stuff to a T.
Speaker 1:Yeah, cause the other part of this is I look at it like we did with word processors back in the 70s. There were a thousand of them and all sorts of different software packages that were called word processors. Today it's Microsoft Word and that's about it, but in the day there were just a zillion of them. But it really boiled down to which one you could navigate and use the easiest, which one was easier for you to use, and then you would tell everybody else boy, you've got to do this one, you've got to try this one, because this is so much better than that and it just really and you need to. No, it really boils down to which one's easier for you to use because of the way you prefer to use your software, and that's, that's. I think, the same thing, true, here I I tried a couple of them. I won't mention names, but they were just so hard to use I never could figure out how to use them, and that's another factor.
Speaker 2:yeah, that's not another factor. Yeah, that's another factor. So in your case, and I guess, most people's cases, it's what I just said, along with what you said of if it gets you to write more emails, use it. If it gets you writing more than one email a week, please, for the love of God, use that one. Use that one more and that is a big thing is usability. Usability is great, along with people's own product and services, for sure.
Speaker 1:And they're folks that just love MailChimp, they love ActiveCampaign, they love ConvertKit. I'm a Kajabi guy, I love my Kajabi, I'm a Kajabi person and that's just me Kajabi is simple, direct, easy to write, yeah.
Speaker 1:And I can put pictures in there, I could put videos, I could do all kinds of things. But that leads me to the last thing, John, that I wanted to mention to you and to our audience. We go on and on and on about marketing and SEO and all the rest of those kind of things with so many folks on this podcast, but the fact is that's sort of ancillary kind of work for you. Mr Business Owner, you need to be engaged with real life prospects. Boys and girls I'm married to an elementary school teacher, retired that's kind of a line that grew up in our house. The fact is, as a business owner, you're not. You got to be engaged with real life people. You can do all the marketing in the world that you want to do, but if you're not spending the majority of your time in that green light kind of stuff where you're talking to or making appointments to talk to real live prospects, qualified prospects who are going to very possibly do business with you, then I don't care how good your email is.
Speaker 2:Yep, Yep. And that's where where lead flow and, like my best days, I feel like I've done a lot and I'm like today was a really good day. You're right, Entirely Like if I talk to a ton of people, I'm like I got some business done today. I got some work done today. That's conversations. I was on a great podcast with Morris. I was, you know, went on a couple other podcasts. I walked the dog. I came back, I closed a business. I agree entirely. You need a flow of leads as constantly as you possibly can. If you're not talking to a lead, get on LinkedIn, go on somewhere and just talk to someone. Make a relationship, Make a friend, make a partnership, find another way to, I think, truly get on the phone, talk to someone. It keeps you sharp and also you never know if it will lead to some kind of business deal of some kind you never can tell.
Speaker 1:You never can tell, and the reason I mentioned it, pardon me, the reason I mentioned it is the other answer to that dilemma, if you will, is hire somebody to do it. Hire John to do it for you. Your chances are. I'm not. I'm far from a marketing expert or a copywriting expert, but right now I'm doing it because it's just the way it is for my business. But if your business would allow you to hire that out, even if, even if you've got a, you know, pinch some pennies somewhere else, boy howdy, that could really make a difference in your world.
Speaker 1:So consider, the outsourcing of the things that you don't do extremely well.
Speaker 2:And yes, I'm doing those things that only you can do, that you do better than anybody else in your entire world yeah, I think the biggest roles, the biggest roles for that are going to be one, someone to manage your leads, an email marketer or just lead manager of some kind that's probably the most profitable position you can hire for. And also two salespeople salespeople to upsell, downsell, resell on any level, commission, pay them a commission basis and then salary. When you can Having someone do that alone, that alone, for example, the sound, go back to that sound of business. They don't have anyone on the phones. Again, upselling, downselling, reselling anything to any customers at all, the you know fleet comes in and they happen to sell them that way great. But after they become a customer they don't have any salespeople to handle that. So one salesperson literally calling all the past customers over the next six months would probably make them a few hundred thousand dollars in revenue. Just that one single change.
Speaker 2:So anyone looking to, I agree, do all this stuff, you know, if you have the time and capability, sure, but in most cases you don't have the time, you don't have the capability and you don't have the mastery skill set to be able to perform these things at the highest level. So again, you're not really. It's not really an expense, it's how can I guarantee some more money in my business so I can actually grow faster. You need someone managing your email and you need some kind of salesperson in a role you know, as long as you have lead flow. Get someone doing those two things, you're going to expand so much faster and make so much more money.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean it comes right back down to investment, investing in your business.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes.
Speaker 1:John, thank you so much. This has been a wonderful conversation. Thank you for joining us today on the Commission Code.
Speaker 2:Thank you as well. Can I leave with one quote or two?
Speaker 1:quotes maybe. Oh, please, please, and also please tell us how to find you.
Speaker 2:Yes, sir, so you can find me at profit alliescom. If you want to grow your business, literally, we guarantee it day one of working together. Let us know we can make it happen as well. I came up with these two quotes. I have a few of them by memory. These are from myself. Jessica Beal, justin Timberlake's wife, even retweeted one of them. It was kind of viral. We have aspire for progress, hunger for success and strive for greatness, which has an obvious meaning. It just means when you get here, you go a little farther, you get a little further and you just constantly grow, keep moving forward. I also have um your attitude is not defined by your life.
Speaker 1:Your life is defined by your attitude. Isn't that the truth.
Speaker 2:Oh yes, it's my perspective on all of life. I get to dictate how, always, because sometimes things slip through. You can't be perfect, but as often as you can, I get to dictate what life means to me.
Speaker 1:Amen, that's for sure, John. That's great. Thank you so much, brother. I really do appreciate that ending and I appreciate you taking the time to join us here today on the Commission Code.
Speaker 2:Thank you, take care.