The Commission Code for Success
Does your gross revenue come from commissions, fees, and other types of 1099 MISC income? If you answered yes, then the Commission Code for Success is a podcast created specifically with you in mind. Each episode is designed to deliver a concept or idea that will help you increase your revenue and have more time to enjoy it.
If you are an employee on 100% commission or an independent contractor you are a business owner when it comes to how you go about doing your daily work. The mindset of a business owner puts you in exactly the right spot to maximize your revenue and maximize the impact you have with your clients and customers.
The Commission Code is the library of knowledge and the set of skills you need to grow your business and reach your desires. Please join us and our guests at The Commission Code Podcast! I look forward to seeing you there, I'm your host, Morris Sims.
The Commission Code for Success
Stop Pushing Products; Start Helping People Buy, Brian McDonald
Selling feels broken when it’s all pressure, scripts, and quotas. We flip the script by showing how a serving mindset—rooted in curiosity, empathy, and clarity—turns sales into a respectful, high-conversion conversation. With guest Brian McDonald, we unpack why people buy you first, then your offer, and how to build trust without resorting to tired tactics that push buyers away.
We start by reframing the story many of us tell about “salespeople,” replacing the salesy stereotype with a professional model grounded in service. Brian shares a simple sequence buyers use to decide: they need to feel your sincerity, see your history, believe your ability, and trust your capacity. When you lead with care and questions, objections surface earlier, walls come down, and decisions get easier. We talk practical language shifts—say serve instead of sell—and why accepting three outcomes (yes, no, not now) from both sides creates safety and speed.
From real-world stories to field-tested habits, we explore how authenticity wins even at higher prices, how modern buyers arrive informed and expect collaboration, and why old-school micromanagement and metrics-as-weapons stifle performance. You’ll learn to replace pressure with process: align on goals, confirm constraints, co-design solutions, and close with clear next steps. If you want to sell less and help more—while earning more of the right yeses—this conversation gives you the map.
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How can I serve people? I'm not going to sell somebody something. I'm going to serve them. And that allowed me to enter into uh conversations with people curious, um, and curious, wanting to listen, and uh equipped with the mindset, I need to ask a bunch of questions.
SPEAKER_01:Welcome to the Commission Code Podcast. We're here to help you overcome the challenges that most of us face in our business from feeling like you're on a plateau button feeling over the wheel button feels like you're all the way to work well for a while. We want to put those problems in the board. Objective is to provide the way to prove the people. I'm having more fun than ever to helping people build successful businesses. So with all that, let's get on with the closed episode of the commission code for your success. Today is one of those days when I get to do something that I truly love, and that is to sit and just talk about sales for 30 minutes. It's uh it's one of those things that really lights up my day, and I'm so excited to have Brian McDonald with me because I think Brian's in the same boat. He and I both kind of uh love the whole idea of professional sales. So, Brian Brian, thank you so much for being with us today.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, Mars, thanks for uh having me on. And uh this is gonna be fun. Uh I love sharing my ideas out there to help people uh uh get better at sales so they can make the money and and the life that they want. So I'm sure we're gonna come up with some nuggets here today.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, I bet we will. Yeah, tell me, Brian. I mean, a lot of the folks that I work with and that I I find in the in the world today, they all come in and they want to, you know, Morris, I've I've got to sell things, but I really don't want to be in sales. I can't stand being salesy. How do you approach that with somebody?
SPEAKER_00:Oh gosh, a couple things is one, um uh salesy people are not great salespeople, right? Like the the amateurs. We were talking, I think we were talking about this pre pre-recording. And um, and I what I've learned is that's a projection, and you have to change your um perspective on salespeople to actually change that. Uh what I mean by that is like there's an exercise that I have new clients uh come in and do, and I say uh they've got to uh write down on a piece of paper like um uh how would they describe a salesperson? Um, and then uh how would they describe themselves in sales, and then what do they aspire to be in sales? And to a T everybody goes negative on the first question, right? Uh then they there's some version of negative on the second question, how they view themselves, but then the third is positive. And I basically tell them, like, hey, for us to uh to to help you improve, you need to change your perspective on salespeople because you're projecting what you don't want into the world, and that's most what you're most familiar with. So that's what you're gonna tend to do, right? Uh uh and when they start changing that mindset, that's when they start uh learning faster and adopting the strategies, tactics, and practices that are uh actually beneficial. Um uh because it's it's uh um yeah, mindset, as you probably agree with me, matters in sales. Oh yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:It it's it's what our our one of the one of the founding thinkers in sales taught us a long time ago. It's it's about what the other person wants, it's about helping them get what they want. Because when I help you get what you want, then I'm gonna wind up getting and Zig Zig taught us all that many years ago we didn't listen. You know, so it's it's it's just amazing. I don't know how many shows I've done where I've I've said that. So if there are folks out there going, Morris, would you just get on with it? But anyhow, Brian, I I think you're absolutely right. It's that mindset, it's that perspective walking in. And if we can ever get to the point where folks realize that we are all in sales, I mean the best salespeople I know are mothers and fathers of toddlers and teenagers.
SPEAKER_00:Totally. Oh gosh. Uh, I I see myself using these affected sales projects on my kids all the time. Now, they're not the uh um basically on how the how their brains are developing, they're not the best responders. You know, sometimes it works.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it's it's like my my son is an attorney and uh he married a young lady whose father is an attorney, and she looked at him one day and she said, Quit lawyer in me. And I thought, you know, that's exactly the problem. Some the brand new attorneys they come in thinking that everything has to be adversarial. Same thing's true here. If you walk into a sales situation and you think, Oh, I've got to tell you everything that you need to know, and I've got to push you and put you in a box to make you answer some close-handed questions that are gonna move us closer to you saying yes to buy.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, golly, gee, that ain't the way to do it. Oh, no, not at all. One one mindset in this direction that I adopted was um, how can I serve people? I'm not gonna sell somebody something, I'm gonna serve them. And that allowed me to enter into uh conversations with people curious, um, and curious, wanting to listen, and uh equipped with the mindset I need to ask a bunch of questions before I talk.
SPEAKER_01:Absolutely. And it's uh words and language matter and serve as a word that matters. We were we were in Baton Rouge at a wonderful seafood restaurant this weekend, and oh golly, the kid walked up and he said, Hi, my name is Sean. I'm here to serve you tonight. And I thought, oh wow, this kid doesn't realize how good that was. He just didn't realize how much he just guaranteed his tip, you know? Yep, and it because it's so much different than hi, I'm Sean, I'm here to take care of you tonight. I don't need you to take care of me, I need you to to help me here. And it it was amazing. I asked him afterwards, I said, Sean, do you do that every time you walk up to a new table? He said, Well, yeah, I I guess I do. I said, Well, I think you do because I heard you use it twice again in two other tables. So it just wanted you to know how important it is the word you used, because words and language matter. And it did those words and language come from, they're derived through or from your mindset.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, totally. You know, the the one thing that I learned also that was effect effective. I want to say this clearly, is um the the positive things from sales that I learned were just life skills and it became who I am. Like there's not a there's a and and this is different than the lawyering thing that you just mentioned, right? I want to be clear. Um I'd imagine that that person you referenced goes into lawyer mode versus this is just who I am. Right. Because the best mentor I had said, Hey, these skills I'm teaching you, I want you to go use them in your personal life with your family and friends and see how they worked. And what he left out was was was uh uh I think purposely was hey, these aren't sales skills, these are just human interaction and communication skills. Totally and people appreciate it, right? Like it's it's odd, air quotes odd how it works.
SPEAKER_01:It is, it really is, and it it is so much becomes a part of just who you are, and it's not that amateur sales stuff, but it's the professional sales stuff, which really is, as you said, it's just human interaction because people whether they're they're whether we're talking about uh uh you know buying something or we're talking about just having a conversation and making a friend, there are three things they want to know. I'm I'm told and I'm taught that they want to know whether or not they can trust you. They want to know whether or not you care about them personally, and then they want to know whether or not you really know your stuff. And if you can answer those three questions with the way you talk, your tone of voice, your body language, the questions that you ask, you got a much better chance of helping those people make a decision to buy whatever it is that's gonna help them get what they want.
SPEAKER_00:And and I'd I'd assert that the last one that you know that you know your stuff is sequential, meaning you have to have the first two happen before the third, right? Because if you come out the gate, kind of like you mentioned, like, hey, let me tell you what you need, like you know your stuff, they're not listening. Uh, I'll say it this way you knowing your stuff isn't relevant to them until the first two happen.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, isn't that the truth? I mean, it's it's uh I don't know who Lee Holtz was the first guy I ever heard say it, but you know, they don't care how much you know until you know how much you care. And you know, it's it's still absolutely true, but it it does all come back down to that relationship that we're building. Uh in a in a course I'm I'm working on right now. I I say, yeah, you're trying to build a friendship here first before you can do anything else. You're trying to build a relationship. No, you're not trying to come up with a a romantic relationship or find a spouse, but it's kind of the same thing.
SPEAKER_00:Kind of the same thing. My wife uh is uh uh has been a school teacher for 20 years, she's now an assistant principal. Um, uh we were built different. I married my opposite, which was good for me. Um, so I'm very outgoing. And uh the one thing she like says to me uh once I learned all these skills is man, we go to like some party, and you find you can find the person that nobody wants to talk to or nobody likes, like the villain, and that person's enamored with you. And I go, Well, I'm just really I may disagree with them on topics, they don't necessarily know it, but I build trust and respect with them because I I listen to them, I ask them questions, right? It's like uh that's why I said, like, this is just who you become, right? Like, I don't, I don't care if you agree with me or not, I'll talk to you. I'm gonna be curious about your perspectives, right? But I'm not gonna be combative, right? Like uh uh, and I think those skills, it drives her nuts, but that's that's how I make money.
SPEAKER_01:Exactly. And it's it's how you help other people. Oh, wouldn't it be wonderful if we get our government to do that? But that's another whole, that's another whole pot. That's a whole completely different pot. The the the fun part about it all is that you get to meet people and you get to find out about them and and learn stuff. But you said something, Brian, that triggered a thought in my mind. You gotta be, it's gotta be yourself. You've got to be sincere and authentic about this. Because if you're putting on a show or trying to impersonate somebody, I can tell right off the bat.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I I uh I was in Denver recently with uh a client, uh, an old client, um, and uh you know, she went through a group coaching program I had and and naturally struggled. She was a uh uh a fractional HR person. So left corporate America, was gone. And one of the first things I told her was, hey, like you have to be yourself. Like you're struggling because you're trying to transition into somebody, somebody else. And when I met with her uh a couple weeks ago, uh uh she was saying, you know what? Like I didn't fully understand what you were telling me um until like the past six to twelve months. Is I just show up unabashedly me wanting to help people, and I convert more sales doing that than what I was when I was trying to hard. I said, Yes, because first they're buying you, then they're buying your product and service. It happens in that order. Oh, yeah, 100% of the time.
SPEAKER_01:100% of the time. And it if you don't know that going in, then then you're you're never gonna get anywhere. But it's it's do I trust you? Do you care about me? And then do you know your stuff? It it really comes down to building that relationship. And it's it's uh I know the the line out there right now is relationship sales, and and uh okay, great. Yeah, but if you're if you're using that kind of of wording and you still think that it's about you and not about them, it still isn't gonna work.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, you you actually have to give a crap about people. Yeah, I right and exactly, right? Like 100% and giving a crap about people means to me that I can enter into this sales conversation, and what I do and how I do it may actually not help them, and I have to discover that, right? Um, now, granted, you know, many times if it's a qualified prospect, you can help them, uh, but or and I use but and um I take that into every conversation, like there's three answers. And the thing that has helped me out, uh say it this way, the thing that has helped me win more in sales and serve a lot of people is um the answer going into a a sales conversation could be yes or no on my part or yes or no on their part, right? We both have the ability to decline, right? Um it's not sales at all costs because that's all about me. Uh, but that perspective I found uh drops people's um guard, also keeps me curious and interested in what's going on, and just sets up this tone of a conversation where where people feel safe to open up. And once you're safe and you open up to me, I can actually figure out if I can help you or not, right? You actually, you know, they're not, you know. Well, the opposite is I'm trying to sell something hard, people will lie, they'll put up walls, right? Like the lots of objections. I I find that those things are removed, right? Uh now, do I want to win? Yes, but sometimes I don't.
SPEAKER_01:Exactly. And and sometimes it's just not right. Uh you know, it's just not a connection. There's not a not a need for my service. And if there's not, what do you need? And maybe I can help you find it somewhere else. When you care about when you give a crap about people, those are the kind of things that go through your head rather than oh my god, I'm not gonna make a sale, I've got to do something. Well, we don't make sales, people buy.
SPEAKER_00:Exactly. Help a bunch of people buy, don't sell anybody anything. And I've actually um uh I've been the higher if when people are interviewing service providers, I've been the highest cost, and I've won because of what what we're talking about, right? They're I'm going with you. I'm going with you because you made it safe to like that I didn't have to buy. Um, you understand me better, you didn't try to sell me anything. I can keep going down the list of things, right? Oh yeah, you know, they have way more respect and confidence in me versus the other guy.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, again, it's it's back to sincerity and and being your authentic self. And when you're not, uh people know it. It's it comes across like you know, nothing. It's just right out there in front of in front of their face and they can pick it up.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that sincerity thing is big. Like one of the uh mentors I had taught taught me from his perspective there are four components to trust. One sincerity that you actually understand the problem and how it's affecting them. One, you have a history of uh of actually solving that problem, you know your stuff. The third is um uh you have the ability to do it, right? Like I know I have the history, but can you actually do it right now? And then the the last is capacity. I actually can serve you right now. Uh I I just thought those were four bullets or distinctions that uh when I took those into into meetings and I had people mentally check those boxes, they're like, all right, let's go with this, Brian, right? I want to run with you because there's times where you can check three of those boxes and people are worried about like, hey, can you actually do this for me? Do you have the capacity to do it right now? And that's the thing that loses a sale because you can't you can't help them pull the trigger. You have to delay that.
SPEAKER_01:I recently bought a new car. The guy that was was the quote unquote salesperson in the dealership was a young man who had been doing this for like two months. Was his first foray into the the profession of sales. And I told him at the outset several things I wanted. One was when I come in to see you, I want to drive the car that that you think is right for me, and I want to leave there with that car. I don't want to be there all day. After two hours, I'm gonna leave. Because I've had bad experiences with cars all my life. And this kid made it all happen. He was there to get me what I told him I wanted, and I was very clear about what I wanted. And he he absolutely got me everything that I wanted, and I drove out of there with a brand new car and left him my old car, and they took care of all the things necessary to handle that. But the kid did it, and he did it, I think, probably uh internally and in and instinctively, trying to because his mindset was I'm here to help you get what you want. And it it worked. He sold a car, I got a new car, and the damn car is smarter than I am. It's incredible.
SPEAKER_00:Well, and and uh I think there's there's something to learn. Uh how do I say this? So experienced or more experienced salespeople like this guy, there's something to learn from his green and his his innocent ignorance that you can glean off of. Because I think there's there's some point in transition that after people learn sales, uh they they start believing in things that aren't true, or they get full of ego, or something. There's there's something that if, hey, if you just remembered the the the things that you believed or you did when you were innocently ignorant, just for keep repeating those things, like it's helpful. Like perhaps he just literally listened to you.
SPEAKER_01:Right, yeah, I mean he did, he had no choice. I I wouldn't give him any other alternative. The other thing that may have happened is because there's still some some folks out there, some companies that that try and teach old school sales, you know, sell yourself, sell your company, sell yourself, and so then sell the product. And it's it's like, you know, it's all up to you. And then they get beat up if they don't quote unquote make enough sales, when in reality it's about how many people you talk to this week because the numbers will work out if you do that.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, uh, we call the we call a version of what we're talking about, uh using metrics as weapons is uh is uh I I've seen it more often than not. These old school approaches um are there not to empower salespeople to to succeed, they're there um possibly inadvertently to hold them back and micromanage people, right? Which I just think like in the world we live in, it's completely nuts, completely nuts. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Totally. I it did you sit here and you talk about that, and it it's like I'm sitting here convicting myself. I I feel like I need to go to confession now. Uh it's it's like, yeah, I know I did that, and I did that to a lot of people, and I shouldn't have now that I look back, and I'm so sorry if you're listening out there and I was one of those. I apologize. I am so sorry, please forgive me. Because in coaching with salespeople now, my whole focus is let's talk about activity. The sales are gonna come. Yeah, let's make sure that you're talking to people and enter in and getting involved in a conversation that's going to lead to them finding a solution to their problem when the ultimate result of that is they choose to buy. Because you know, Brian, we love to buy. Amazon proves it. We love to buy. Amazon guy knows my name, but we hate to be sold.
SPEAKER_00:Yep. We hate to be sold.
SPEAKER_01:And that's that's the realization I think that's come around since the 50s, 60s, and 70s, and probably into the 80s, where sales was all about, you know, the guy in the plaid sport coat and you know, all that kind of good stuff.
SPEAKER_00:Well, think about it this way: you you you said something about buying the car. You came in highly informed, educated about what you want. Where in the 50s, 60s, 70s, and 80s, there wasn't as much information. So the salesperson in some fashion had to be the educator, right? Uh I've got information that you don't have, and and and uh and I hold it. So like there's some power in that. It's it's flipped. I think it's flipped, right? Uh, and understanding that, right? Like uh it's the same concept of like uh uh hopefully it's not bad, uh bad analogy, but like uh hey, like driving stick cars became inefficient. So thinking about you're gonna keep producing stick cars and not like automatic and and electric cars is insane. Thinking that that car is gonna compete with others. It's not, it's outdated, right? You need to change with the times, and perhaps some point in time, sales is gonna change again. It's those that don't adapt are those that get left behind.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, isn't that the truth? 100%. Absolutely 100%. Now you got me wishing for my clutch. Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:You know, I was just talking to somebody about uh uh uh clutch cars. That's the only reason why that came to my but it's true.
SPEAKER_01:I I but yeah, I'm I'm wishing for that that old 1968 Volvo that I bought when I was in high school. That that me and my clutch were were buddies. Anyhow, Brian, thank you so much for being with us today on the Commission Code. I really appreciate you taking the time to be here.
SPEAKER_00:No, this was great. I uh I look forward to it and uh uh I appreciate you and what you're doing for this industry because more people need to hear this information to help them succeed.
SPEAKER_01:Well, that does it for this episode of the Commission Code Podcast. This is the place where we want to help you find the commission code to success in your business. Remember, go to Morris Sims.com for more information. And in the meantime, hey, have a great week. Get out there and meet somebody new, and we'll see you again next time, right here on the Commission Code. Best wishes, I'm Morris Sims.