The Commission Code for Success

From Listening To Matching: Building A Buying Experience That Works

• The Commission Code For Success from Sims Training and Consulting, LLC • Season 2 • Episode 1

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What if the strongest “close” isn’t a close at all, but a clear next step that helps a buyer feel smart, safe, and in control? That’s the heart of this conversation with sales strategist Lynn Jensen Nelson, where we trade pressure tactics for a teacher’s mindset and a buyer-first experience that converts without discounts.

We start with the basics the pros never skip: ask clean questions, listen without jumping to conclusions, and help customers articulate what they truly want. From there, we map needs to solutions and make the path simple to follow. You’ll hear how small language shifts change outcomes: ditch “quotes” and “bids” for “recommendations” and a “plan,” replace good-better-best with three options that all solve the problem, and use phrases like “Let’s work together to find one best solution.” We unpack why emotions drive decisions while facts justify them later, and how clarity, speed, and respect create the confidence that moves deals forward.

Lynn shares real stories that highlight common pitfalls, like rapport theater when buyers are ready to act, and the lost revenue that happens when customers don’t know your full scope of services. We dive into designing a frictionless buying experience, giving buyers meaningful control, and outlining the next step instead of fishing for a “yes.” We also explore how to extend value beyond the first transaction with scheduled check-ins, needs-based recommendations, and simple prompts like, “What else is on your to-do list?”

If you want practical language, a repeatable flow, and a way to win on trust rather than price, you’ll find a blueprint here. Subscribe for more conversations that help you grow revenue, protect your time, and build buyer experiences people love. If a single phrase or tactic hits home, share it with a colleague and tell us what you’ll change this week.

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SPEAKER_02:

The fact of the matter is, some people they know they don't like what they have or don't have yet, but they're not always really good about articulating what they want. And the best sales professionals I've ever worked with are really good at helping customers articulate what they need and then matching that up with the solution that they can provide. And as you and I were talking too, uh, some of the top sales pros I've worked with over the years were really good listeners, really good questioners. They didn't come in, you know, guns blazing, hey, let me tell you about this great product I have. They were exceptional at helping customers understand what they need, articulate that need, and then match it up in a way that comes from being really focused on helping. That match is what makes them so successful in sales.

SPEAKER_00:

Welcome again to the Commission Code Podcast. We appreciate you taking the time to listen and join us here today. We're here to help you increase your business revenue and have time to enjoy it. I'm your host, Morris Sims, and I've been consulting and training business people for, well, let's just say over 40 years. We're focused on increasing revenue and having time to enjoy it. After years as a professional salesperson, I spent 32 years in the corporate world. I retired as vice president and chief learning officer of the sales department of a large insurance company where we designed and built and delivered training for over 12,000 professional salespeople. Now, I get to consult one-on-one, helping people grow their business and organize themselves to make the most of the time they have. We also build online courses to support business owners in their work as they strive to build the business that they've always wanted. Our objective is really very simple. It's this we're here to help you get what you want from your business and your life. So, right now, let's get on with this episode. Lynn Jensen Nelson is our guest today on the Commission Code. Lynn runs a company called Conversion. Is that right? Conversion Optics.

SPEAKER_03:

Conversion Optics, yes.

SPEAKER_00:

Conversion Optics, speaking speakers bureau, and uh a sales strategist. Lynn's been in sales for a number of years and is a sales strategist and has some great things to share with us today. So, Lynn, welcome to the show. Glad you're here.

SPEAKER_01:

Thank you so much. I'm looking forward to it.

SPEAKER_00:

Me too. And you know, we were chatting a little bit before we got started here about sales. Uh Lynn, I still think the best salespeople in the world are parents of toddlers and teenagers.

SPEAKER_02:

You know, I used to say my background originally was education. So we were talking about how we got into our respective fields. And I grew up in a little tiny farm town where basically everybody became teachers or farmers. And so I became a teacher. And what I learned is after doing that, and then I was recruited into a sales position, that really the number one role of a sales professional is to teach customers to be great customers and to make the path easy for them to follow. And I I found that applying the same strategies to working with customers is really the basis of the training and the strategy that we create today.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, isn't that the truth? And it's it uh boy, we can go in so many different directions here. This is just really cool. The the fact is, what we want to do is make it easy for people to give to put them in an environment where they can choose to buy. Because Frank, you and I both know, Lynn, we're not gonna make anybody buy. We're not gonna close a sale. Uh, they're gonna choose to buy. So we have to create an environment where it's good for them and where it's easy for them to choose what's right for them and what's best for them so that they can move forward. Uh, it's just it's it's all about the same thing a teacher does, really.

SPEAKER_02:

It's true. It's all about that same parameters. So when we are working with clients and talking about sales strategy, um, rule number one is nothing that happens until a sale is made, right? It's so important. Your frontline sales force is the biggest impact on that customer buying experience, no matter what they're buying. And today's customers, they expect an exceptional buying experience. You're not just in competition with other people in your industry, you're in competition with everybody and all of those experiences. And and the best way, in fact, the fastest way to be successful. I'm sure you work with a lot of new sales professionals too. And I always say the best way to be successful is to focus on how do you make it easy for your customers to do the right thing. Make it easy for customers to find you, make it easy for people to visit with you, make it easy for them to pay you to make selections. And if that is the key thing you focus on, you simply will be more successful because making it easy, and and that focus area you and I discussed earlier about helping your customers, help your customers feel successful, help your customers make easy decisions. That's really that the premise for being a successful sales professional.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, it is, it really, really is. And you know, uh I don't know how many hundreds of times I've said this on the show, but the fact is, Zig Ziggler taught us all this years ago, and he made it very clear that uh it's all about helping other people get what they want. It's not about me walking in worried about paying the mortgage and and making a commission. It's about me walking in and trying to help somebody get what they want. So I best figure out what that is before we go any further, because the only in Zig's words, the only people that make a sale are con men. And you don't want to be a con man. I can't I can't do a Zig Ziggler voice at all.

SPEAKER_02:

No, it's much better than mine. I give you pen props for that. But but it's true, and and that's what we see in the years and as a as a sales leader. Looking at the people who do really well in sales are those that help a customer articulate the challenge that they're facing. So when people buy things, whether that's insurance or homes or cars or clothing, whatever colleges, whatever else it might be, the fact of the matter is some people they know they don't like what they have or don't have yet, but they're not always really good about articulating what they want. And the best sales professionals I've ever worked with are really good at helping customers articulate what they need and then matching that up with the solution that they can provide. And as you and I were talking too, uh, some of the top sales pros I've worked with over the years were really good listeners, really good questioners. Like they didn't come in, you know, gun is blazing. Hey, let me tell you about this great product I have. They were exceptional at helping customers understand what they need, articulate that need, and then match it up in a way that comes from being really focused on helping. That match is what make them so successful in sales.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, yeah. That discovery process is what makes the sale, in my opinion. It's not about anything I ask or not about putting you in a box and and and manipulating your answers. It's about learning. It's about, as you say, listening and listening in a very authentic and sincere fashion. Uh I guess that's the other piece that that comes to me a lot. Boy, you gotta be yourself.

SPEAKER_01:

Right. Right.

SPEAKER_00:

You know, I can't be Lynn. Lynn can't be Morris. It just ain't gonna work. Oh, it's true. You're a lot better looking than I am. It just it just isn't gonna work at all. So consequently, if I'm not authentic and I'm not sincere, if I'm talking down to people, or if I'm not really engaged, I'm asking all these questions, but you can tell that I'm really not engaged. Have you ever been in one of those conversations?

SPEAKER_02:

Oh my gosh. I always I think of I had an example a few years ago, and I use this in in training too. I had a situation where, keeping the story short, I know we want a lot of time, but I was in a car accident. So I wasn't driving, I was in the car, my car was total. I have great insurance, I had a check the next day to buy a new car as fast as I could because I had projects to get to. And I walked in and said, I know exactly what I want. I have the check right here for my insurance company. And bless his heart, this this person at the car dealership that was going to sell me a car. He clearly had been taught you have to ask these 10 questions. And it went off on this, you know, and I think he was trying to build rapport. And so he was telling me about his mom and the car is mom, but I'm hearing his mind, he thought that would build. And to this day, it just that was an example of not being able to adjust to the needs of the client. And it's how often does somebody walk in and say, I have all the money, I know exactly what I want, just give me what I want. We wish our clients came in that way every day, but but there wasn't, they weren't listening, they weren't adapting, they weren't adjusting. And it really is important, you know, to your point. We want to timing is everything. We need to make sure that we are matching that customer. We are listening to what they need, but also one of my pet peeves when it comes to listening is people that jump in and try to guess what you're going to say, because the last nine customers all had pricing objectives, you know, or objections. And so I know you're gonna have a price objection. So I want to cut it off with the pass. And unfortunately, we lose sales that way because the customer, the only thing the customer remembers after meeting with you is how they felt about it. They don't remember and think, oh my gosh, Morris is brilliant and has years of experience and is a top performer and has this program. They remember, did Morris make me feel like I'm here at the right time? That I I, you know, I was able to articulate what I need, that I leave that feeling, which is again one of our rules too, is think about how customers feel after working with you. Do they feel successful? And I don't know about you, Morris. I've seen people who try to educate the customer, but from more of the perspective of here's what I know, and you don't. I'm like, or they'll say everything that could possibly go wrong. And they scare the customer away from the process. And I'm just like, oh boy, let's slow down, let's let the customer talk, let's find out what's important to them.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, it's not about me, it's about them.

SPEAKER_02:

That's what people care about. I people care about themselves, yeah, their needs, their family. That's what they care about. That's what they want to talk about. They want to talk about themselves and what's most important to them. And it's funny, that's one of the things I train people all the time. Get in the habit of saying what's most important to you because it applies in every context. Don't assume it's what's important to you. Don't assume it's what the last nine people cared about. It is absolutely okay to say what's most important to you and let your customer help kind of figure some of that out, and then they feel more engaged in the solution you provide. It's the IKEA effect, right? They feel more involved in building it, and so therefore, they're more likely to really feel comfortable moving forward with the solution you provide.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, as you say, sometimes folks walk in and they they know what they they think they'll they think they know exactly what they want. And you know, it if that's the case, I I tell people that I trade if somebody walks in the door virtually or physically and they say, I want to buy an alligator, sell them a damn alligator. We'll worry about what they really need, that they really need a poodle, we'll worry about that later. But if they come in and they tell you, I can afford it and I want to buy an alligator, sell them a damn alligator.

SPEAKER_03:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

And build a client, build a relationship, because that's what's going to be successful for them and for you. Absolutely. But yeah, man, they want an alligator, sell them a damn alligator. And it works so much better when when that occurs and when that discovery is sincere, when it is authentic, when I really do care about what you want to tell me, because from a selfish standpoint, if I learn what you want, I may be able to show you how I can help you get that. And that's when you may choose to buy my product, whatever it might happen to be. So all these all these you know sales things about price and deals and stuff, that's not professional sales, in my opinion.

unknown:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

Would you would you agree?

SPEAKER_02:

I absolutely agree. And too often I I see people lead with the discount, lead with the deal that's going on, lead with, and and I get it. At some point in time, if a customer doesn't come in with a natural, already quickly established sense of urgency, we do sometimes have to create some urgency in the decision-making process. And and right now, with everything going on in the world, I think some people are like, oh, I'm gonna wait until this settles down or the prices come down, or you know, they they're they're which again, we know historically that doesn't typically happen. But we do need to be able to help them understand the value of the timing. And and I'm sure I would, you know, what's the best time to make a sale? It's when the customer wants to buy. So they and especially, like you said, whether they're an online first connection or goodness gracious, if people are physically moving into your space, whether that's a car dealership or a retail store or setting an appointment with you in your office, man, it's like they are, you know, wrapped in gold and dipped in chocolate. Like if someone spend that time coming to see you, you better turn that into an amazing experience. And like you, I when I use that challenging experience with a sales pro, my best buying experience was with a car sales professional, too. You know, like you said, adjusted, asked me questions, focused on what I needed, responded quickly, kept things moving forward. So it really is about the individual. I also one of the things I'd love to get your thoughts on, and part of this conversation is as a sales professional, controlling what we can control. It's way too easy to say, well, you know, interest rates this or tariffs that, or, you know, economics this. The fact of the matter is people who are successful sales professionals focus on what they can control and they look for and they create opportunities. Is that is that what you've seen too, Morris? I mean, that's what I've seen year over year over year. There are the people who figure out how do I bring in new leads or how do I find more solutions, and they're the ones who are consistently successful.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, I agree. It's certainly not the deals that that are out there that make a great professional salesperson. Lynn, bottom line, we buy based on emotion.

SPEAKER_03:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

And we justify that emotion with all the facts about how great the deal was and how wonderful this is, and why now is exactly the right time to do it. We justify that emotional decision based on those facts. So it's back to human being relationships, because that's where emotion comes from. And if I can build that relationship, then I can show you and I can learn what it is that you really want, what your biggest concerns are, and how I can might help you uh I might be able to help you solve that, then I'm into that emotional world of helping you get what you want rather than trying to sell based on numbers and facts, because numbers and facts are just going to justify the emotional decision, in my opinion. So I best control the environment to put you in that positive environment where you can make the best decision for yourself and your family.

SPEAKER_02:

That's such a good point. The buying experience, that's what converts more. How do I set that up? How do I help the customer be successful? How do I make the process easy? How do I dare say, if it's possible, make it more fun? Yeah. I've seen people sit down and say, Oh, this is the worst part. We have to go through all the you know. I'm like, what? There's some things are true, but not helpful in the situation. So I'm like, well, or we approach it and say, hey, this is the best part of the process. This is where we make sure you and I are on the same page and we are getting you exactly what you are looking for. Just think how that changes with the mindset of the customer versus, oh no, this is the worst part. We have to go through, you know, 37 disclosures or something like that. Because at the end of the day, I mean, I I know it's an old saying, but people buy from people. You are your biggest competitive advantage, you are the strongest asset. And whether you're you're selling B2B, people ask me all the time, is it difference if it's B2B or B2C? And it's not. And not only is that anecdotal in my 30 plus years of experience as a sales strategist, but it's it's proven over and over again. People buy from people. And and certainly we need to go beyond the bid if we're working in something that's more of a business-to-business sales. But at the end of the day, when I work with, I do a lot in the construction industry and some product manufacturers selling to builders, builders at the end of the day, will tell you, you want to know who I want to buy my lumber from or my doors or my windows or anything else. I want to buy from people who care about my business. Yeah. That's what I care about. I care about you need to care about my business. That's what makes you want to buy from you. And and I see that across the board in all the different industries that we need to set ourselves up for success. We need to think about the actual buying experience that we create for our customers. And that is what sets us apart.

SPEAKER_00:

And we do that with building relationships. And it's got to be sincere, it's got to be authentic. I can go in with a list of my you know 10 questions, and I can ask you my 10 questions. And if I ask you a question and I'm busy doing something else, or if if we're not really connecting, it ain't gonna work. Right. I've got to sincerely care about what your answer is and care about you. People buy from people that they like and they trust.

SPEAKER_02:

Trust, exactly. It's one of the biggest drivers.

SPEAKER_00:

If I don't build that level of trust with my integrity and my sincere sincerity and authenticity, then nothing else matters.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, and don't you feel too that whole concept of trust? I I always recommend really thinking about from the other person's perspective, your customer's perspective, what exactly are they trusting you with? So obviously, in virtually all cases, there we're trusting you with your our money, right? Our time, the time that it takes for me to meet with you and do whatever I have to do to make the decision. But in most cases, we're selling way more than that. We might be selling futures. It might be selling experience. It might be a long-term investment. It might be safety. It might be our family's experience. Like really looking beyond just that initial investment. Well, what's a long-term investment in working with you? And how do we extend the value that we offer? And how do we create the best possible experience now? How do we drive referral sales? How do we help them with their future needs? You know, very few of items, very few solutions should be a one and done type of situation, but how do we extend that? And sometimes it's as simple as what else is on your to-do list? How else can I help you? And I find that is such a simple way to extend the value that you offer past just maybe that one trip or that one policy or that one vehicle or that one you know situation you're you're putting in front of them. How do we extend that? So it's not a close, it's not okay, we're done now. Uh you signed the contract, I have your money, you know, call me with challenges. But it's about how do we go go past that? We're always looking at that next step.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, yes, absolutely. And if we're not, we're missing the beat. We're missing everything. Uh it again, it's based on that relationship. And if I build a relationship with you, this is not something that's going to be over with once we finish this transaction. It is a relationship that is going to carry forward. And I'm going to help you with whatever else is on your list of things that you may need that I can help you with. Of course, one of the one of the biggest uh disappointments in the world of uh financial services is when you go out, and for me it always was, I'd go out and sell some life insurance. I wouldn't sell it, people would choose to buy it. People choose to buy life insurance from me, and then I go back and see them sometime in the future, and we're talking and say, you know, I was working with so-and-so and about a long-term care insurance policy from them, and I'm going, what? I can help you with that. Inside my heart, I'm going, What? Why in the world didn't you call me? Well, they didn't because I was stupid enough not to position myself properly and let them know that I'm here for them in the future and all these other things I might be able to do to help them. But it was one of the it's still one of the most frustrating things in the world.

SPEAKER_02:

I hear you. I think all season sales pros, we've all been there, done that, where your customer's like, hey, I want to tell you great news. I bought almost exactly the same thing from someone else because I didn't know you could do it, you know. And that's again, that's that's on us. It's our job. Sure. It's our job to teach customers to be good customers, and it's our job to make sure your every customer knows the full extent of the solutions you provide. And and it's as simple, in that example, it's as simple as saying, and we don't want to overwhelm them either. We don't want to give information, they can't make any decision. But we need in that case a logical next step. Hey, we're gonna get this policy in position, and then we're gonna do a check-in at whatever it is, seven days, 30 days, whatever that time is, to review what else is on your to-do list, how else we can best support you as you are clearly planning for the future. There's a number of other resources that are available to you, to your point. Like I like that kind of language versus the, you know, there's other things we can provide. It's about, hey, there's other solutions based on your needs. Let's do this step first. And then our next step is that check-in point when we can do that. And rather than, hey, here's haven't you seen people? Like, here's the 300 things we can sell you. Tell me what you want to buy. And it's one of those things where you're like, oh my goodness, we give people, we should always be working. I'm a big language person. So I you and I were talking. I know you have an engineering degree. I have a master's degree in communication, which, unlike engineering, is considered to be the fourth most worthless degree you can get. It's like, it's, and I paid my way through college. I waited a lot of tables to get that master's degree in communication. But um fourth most fourth most useless. I think it's like art history, philosophy, basket weaving, communication. But it created in me this fascination with how language affects perception and how what language we control, you decide more as you decide every word you're going to say. I, for the most part, decide every although I get excited about things and I go back and think I could have said that better. But the language we use affects perception. And even in that example, when we use language that shows the customer that they are the focus, we are here to help using words like help, support, solutions, all versus life insurance policies or cars or all those little tiny tweaks to how we communicate with our customers creates that better experience and it helps them understand you're the boss. Like we're here to serve and support you. And and even that language, we use that a lot. You know, we're here to serve and support you what you need. So let's talk about what's your most immediate need. Let's get that taken care of. And then we can talk about other things on your to-do list and how we can help you check them off as well. But let's get this for because we know once we get that initial commitment, then we can build on that. But I think people skip that whole part and go right to something else. And then people, I need to think about it. I need to do more research. I mean, those are signs. Confused customers don't buy, right, Morris?

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, amen. Amen. Words and language matter.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes.

SPEAKER_00:

I use that line over and over and over again because I find it to be so absolutely true. Words and language matter. I can call something one thing and and turn around and call it something else, and it changes the way people perceive what I'm talking about. Now please, please don't don't misunderstand or get me wrong. I know there are businesses out there where contractors, for example, where it is normal to to provide a quote.

unknown:

Yes.

SPEAKER_00:

And that is that is part of the deal. A bid. Those kinds of things are out there. Yeah. Lynn, I gotta tell you. I hate that Q word. I hate it. I hate it. I just absolutely hate it. Because most of the folks I work with are uh professionals in whatever area where they're gonna buy from me if I provide the right environment and the right solution to solve their problem. And it's not about somebody that that really has to be able to say, I've looked at five different alternatives, and this is the one I chose, boss, and this is why I chose it. And because of that, because I'm I'm working mainly, you know, B2C, maybe I guess you'd call it. I want to be that professional and make several recommendations. I'm I may give you, Lynn, here are three recommendations for well, my my my wonderful friends in the world of travel advisory and travel agents. Here are three different ways we can get you to Europe and have the vacation of a lifetime that you'd like to have that you shared with me, A, B, and C, here are the benefits of A, B, and C. Then all I have to do is say, Lynn, which one of these do you think is best for you and your client? Now, if I've used the Q word and I said, Lynn, let me give you a quote. What's the first thing that comes to your mind? And I'll answer the question for you. First thing that comes to your mind is, I need to get another quote so I have something to compare it to.

SPEAKER_02:

Same with bids. That's exactly what you should get pre-bids on things, right?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, and and I don't really want you to go get another quote from somebody else. Not that mine's gonna be any better or worse. Chances are if we are comparing apples to apples, it's gonna be exactly the same. But oh, I hate that Q word, and in the folks that I work with, we try and get rid of that real quick. I agree.

SPEAKER_02:

Both quote and bid, they both just make it seem small and insignificant and not concrete. So we along those same lines, I usually train people the concept of let's work together to find one best solution. We'll work together to so here's three options you may want to consider, but we'll work together to find one best solution. And I find that that kind of language also helps focus people a little bit more because I'm sure, like even with three options, one of the outdated strategies is that whole good, better, best.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, I hate it. Yeah, no, no, it's not what we're talking about.

SPEAKER_02:

But good, better, best. First of all, everybody says I want the best, but I only want to pay this amount. And so then then we, well, that's not an option. Well, okay, now you've made me feel like I don't know what I'm doing. And so I I always say, I don't want to be a supermodel brain surgeon, but here I'm working for a living, right? Like we want everything, but let's work together to create one best solution. Let's create one best experience or one best policy. Like when people know that you are going to partner with them to do that, that they don't have to go out and do the legwork and now compare these three bins or three quotes or whatever else it might be. I I could not possibly agree with you more, Morris. That's exactly right.

SPEAKER_00:

And I love that language. That's that again, words and language matter, and that language is absolutely excellent. The the uh but the good, better, best thing, just I mean, that's Sears Robock from 1968.

SPEAKER_01:

That's a 19 sales process.

SPEAKER_00:

So yeah, so it's a hard time figuring it out.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh, totally.

SPEAKER_00:

And that's why the first thing I when I talk to folks about providing three recommendations, I tell them that's not what this is. All three recommendations solve the problem. All three recommendations are in exactly the a similar price range. This is not a high, middle, and low price thing. This is three recommendations that are gonna get you what you want, but I'm giving you an alternative to choose. I'm putting control in your hand, Mr. Prospect.

SPEAKER_02:

Customers love that. They want to feel like things are out of their control too. That's why, and they don't trust sales professionals. They think all you want to do is sell them. But that whole again, that's that IKEA, the the the bias that if I'm involved in the decision, I feel better about it. So totally I couldn't agree with you more. Here are three great solutions, three great options. To your point, articulate how they match up. Now let's work together and find the best solution. That is absolutely puts them in control, which is what they want. When they feel out of control, that's when they, you know, confused customers don't buy.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, yeah. Work to find the best solution. I have to write that down then. I love love words. Words matter.

SPEAKER_01:

I do too. I'm the same way. I'm always like, oh, I'm gonna totally steal that. That's that's really like that. That's that's one of my faves.

SPEAKER_00:

And you know, on the other side of that coin, the wrong words matter too. And the wrong words delivered without sincerity and authenticity are worse than even the wrong words. Again, I hate to beat up on salespeople because or car salespeople because they're they're great folks and they do a wonderful job. But this one young man years ago looked at me as I sat there and says, Mr. Sims, what can we do to earn your business today? And I thought, okay, dude, this is a bit outdated and a bit ridiculous, and I understand that somebody taught you that's what you're supposed to say. Right. But, you know, let's proceed on. And, you know, I thought, well, give me the car I want at the price I want.

SPEAKER_01:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

And he proceeded on. And of course, in that olden world, back then, 40, 50 years ago, it was uh, well, I have to get my sales manager. Well, Lynn, here comes the sales manager, and he comes and he sits down at the little round table and he says, Guess what? Mr. Sims, what can we do today to earn your business? And at that point, I thought, you guys are just missing about all over the place.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, I'm so uncomfortable for you right now. Like that. Yeah, it was just it was like, oh, get it. Or the other one, too, sometimes you'll hear is well, what do we need to do to get you to what is it, walk out the door with this today or something?

SPEAKER_00:

Oh yeah, and it's just it's like manipulation 101. And that's just not who a professional salesperson is. We're not in the business to manipulate and certainly not coerce or drag or pull or even close a sale. I can't I can't make anybody buy anything. I mean, I I consider myself a fairly good salesperson, but I can't make somebody buy something they don't want. Right. As and again, in Zig's words, the person who's trying to make somebody buy something they don't want is a con man. Right. And that's not what we do. Not at all, not even a little bit.

SPEAKER_02:

I get asked a lot, what's the best like the silver bullet close? And I I feel the same way. I'm like, well, that's but you know what I do when people are like, no, no, Lynn, we need an answer. And I I always say the best close is here's the next step. Which isn't a close at all. It's just simply here's the path. Too often we assume customers know this path, or we wait for the customer to say, okay, Morris, I want to buy this, right?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, and that didn't happen.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, it's just that's just not how it works. So that's that's my only recommendation. This is the next step. This looks like a great match for what you were looking for. Here's the next step, whether that's signing a new contract, setting up financing, you know, committing to dates, whatever that is, outlining the next step, which is not a close. A close is not the end, it should be the beginning, which I know that's an outdated sales thing, but it's true. True. But what are those next steps? And how do we help meet, you know, help you find the best solution now? And where do we go from here? That's the other thing. We we should always be outlining those next steps with customers, always.

SPEAKER_00:

I mean, it it's it's an and again in old world language, it's an assumptive close. Yes, and it it works beautifully. It's which one of these two do you think is best for you and your family? Well, I like this first one. Great. Well, in order to start a plan like that for you, Lynn, we need to, and I'm gonna ask you to start. I'm gonna f start filling out the application.

SPEAKER_03:

Yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_00:

If they hadn't taught me, if somebody and an individual taught me that, if that individual hadn't taught me to do business that way, I would never have been able to pay my bills as a as a brand new life insurance agent. But it was very simple. Which one do you like? I like that one. Great. In order to do that, I need to get a little information. How tall are you? I'm filling out the application.

SPEAKER_03:

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00:

That is how I was able to stay in business, and it works works beautifully. Yeah, we talked about trust, and we'll just leave it with this one and we'll move on. But man, the the thing that the thing that I look at and I think about with that is they're trusting me with their vulnerability. They're trusting me to be vulnerable and tell me what's really on their mind and what they're really thinking about. And they're not gonna do that unless we build a positive relationship. So I Lynn, this has been great. I just absolutely love it. We've had a wonderful conversation, and we could go on for another couple hours, but I'm not sure anybody would listen to us. The uh the fact is, it's been wonderful, and I really appreciate you being with me today on the Commission Code.

SPEAKER_02:

My pleasure. Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, that does it for this episode of the Commission Code Podcast. This is the place where we want to help you find the Commission Code to success in your business. Remember, go to Morris Sims.com for more information. And in the meantime, hey, have a great week. Get out there and meet somebody new, and we'll see you again next time right here on the Commission Code. Best wishes, I'm Morris Sims.