What If Your Website Is Not The Problem? With Scott Winthieser

Your website can be beautiful and still fail at the only metric that pays the bills: qualified leads. We talk with Scott Winthieser of Lightburn Marketing, a firm that’s spent nearly three decades building and improving websites, about the shift from “make it pretty” to “make it perform” with a clear plan you can actually measure.

We break down the 90-day continual improvement approach Scott uses with clients to avoid expensive redesigns that drag on and deliver a prettier version of the same problem. You’ll hear how to map a customer journey, use website analytics to find the exact step where people get stuck, and remove friction points that quietly kill conversions. We also dig into why more pages and more features often hurt small and mid-sized businesses, and how a focused content audit can uncover the 30% to 40% of content nobody reads.

Traffic matters too, so we zoom out to digital marketing and SEO strategy. Search engine optimization is powerful, but it’s only one channel. Scott explains how to choose the best channel for your audience, whether that’s LinkedIn, Google search, paid ads, industry platforms, or YouTube, and why committing to one channel for 90 days with a clear metric beats trying to do everything at once.

If you want a practical, no-hype roadmap for website strategy, conversion rate optimization, and B2B lead generation that fits the resources you actually have, this conversation will help. Subscribe, share this with a business owner who’s frustrated with their site, and leave a review with the one website change you’re ready to make next.

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Cold Open On Cutting The Menu

0:00

The first thing they always do is cut the menu down. Yeah. The restaurants are always trying to do 900 dishes and they can't do any of them well. And their food costs are high, and you know, whatever, because they're trying to do too much. And so they come in, they cut the menu down, they focus on doing two or things, two or three things really well and being known for that. Welcome again to the Commission Code Podcast. We appreciate you taking the time to listen and join us here today. We're here to help you increase your business revenue and have time to enjoy it. I'm your host, Morris Simpson. I've been consulting and training business people for, well, let's just say over 40 years. We're focused on increasing revenue and having time to enjoy it. After years as a professional salesperson, I spent 32 years in the corporate world. I retired as vice president and chief learning officer of the sales department of a large insurance company where we designed and built and delivered training for over 12,000 professional salespeople. Now we get to consult one-on-one helping people grow their business and organize themselves to make the most of the time they have. We also build online courses to support business owners in their work if they strive to build the business that they always wanted. Our objective is really very simple. It's this we're here to help you get

Why We Focus On Revenue

1:25

what you want from your business and your life. So right now, let's get on with this episode. Today on the commission code, our guest is Scott Winfaiser, who runs Lightburn Marketing Company. And I tell you what, Scott's been around, unlike a lot of the marketing people that I interview, I find that they've been in business for two, three, five, six years, something along those lines. Scott's been doing this for quite a while now. Scott, tell us a little bit about Lightburn and when you started and all that good stuff. Sure. So my brother and I started Lightburn um in college 28 years ago. Um, you know, kind of it was 1998. The internet was just getting started. Uh, we were both in college and looking for you know some new challenges and some fun things to do. Um, so we stumbled into building websites. And then, you know, happened to be in the right place at the right time, graduated and just kept the business going and slowly grew it. Now we're, you know, almost three decades later. Uh, we're over 20 people,

Lightburn Marketing Origin Story

2:37

um, and we've been building websites for businesses of all sizes um for feels like forever at this point. And it's really shifted from not just the design part, but also over to all of the, you know, when we first started, it was all about what does your website look like. And now it's a lot more about how does your website help you as a business. And so we've obviously changed from being just a design company into really being um strategic about the marketing side of why you have a website in the first place and how to set it up and um you know what that can really do to help you grow your business. That sounds uh pretty realistic. I mean, how many times do we all buy stuff and it sits on the shelf or doesn't ever do what we wanted it to do in the first place? Uh so that sounds like a good place to begin. Yeah, for a for a business to come in and start small, that's really a thing that we push a lot. We also were big proponents of uh what we refer to as continual improvement. So instead of trying to do these huge redesign overhauls and try to get everything right and add every feature you can think of, um, we really try to instill this 90-day mindset with our clients so that they're just trying to get done what they need it to, what they need to approve for the next 90 days. So find the most important thing that the site's not accomplishing for them and work on improving that, put it out, measure it, see what works, see what doesn't, see what the next improvement is, and you know, repeat, repeat, repeat instead of just trying to do these big giant overhauls all the time, which you know are expensive, they never go as planned, they always take too long, you never get it quite right, and then it sits and it dies, and you do it all over again. So um, you know, the last decade or so, we've really been pushing our clients to think much more of uh as a continual

The 90 Day Improvement Mindset

4:30

improvement and less of a a one-time release for a big site or a big marketing campaign. Scott, I don't want to go down a big, huge technical uh discussion here because I will real rapidly get over my head, but I am curious, how do you how do you do that when everybody's coming in with a website that's on some different platform, some way, shape, form, or fashion? And you know, you've now got to take that and and improve it. How do you do that without starting over from the beginning? Well, sometimes you do have to, right? If the site, if if the site is just too old or if it was designed for a business that is very different from where you are now, um, you know, sometimes it is easier to just start over. Um, but once you get to once we get to a position where it's stable enough, we use a lot of analytics on the site to figure out, okay, who are your target customers? Are they doing what you want them to be doing on the site? If they're not, why? Where are they getting stuck? Um, and then try to make those small improvements to remove those friction points. So if you have if you're selling a service and they get to a certain part of your site and then nothing happens, we're trying to figure out why they're not moving on beyond that point. So we'll put a little bit of time into redesigning just that one page instead of the entire site and really try to remove all those friction points of getting them to contact you or buy your product or sign up for the webinar or whatever it is that you're selling. Tell me how you do that, Scott, because it I am again, uh, I can get way over my head here real fast. But when it when it comes to a website, how do you know what people want or what people are looking for? How do you determine that so that you can remove what you figure out what the friction points are and then remove them? Do you mean um what are you asking in terms of what the business, why the business has a website in the first place? Or what I'm thinking more of you got my website and you're looking at it, and how do you how do you know what people are doing on that site? I know their analytics out the probably out the ears, but what do you what do you what do you look at right? You know, surface level. Um, what do you look at to determine well you got a problem here? Well, it usually starts with what's referred to as a customer journey. So there's when you're designing the site or you know maintaining a site, there's usually uh a defined path that you're trying to get your customers to go down, right? So they might be they typically land on, let's say, the home page, and then you want them to look at a product, add it to their cart, and check out, right? That's a pretty common process we've all been through. So what we'll do is we'll look at analytics and see you know what percentage of people are getting to which steps, for example. So if people are adding stuff to the cart, but then not checking out, then we have to figure out well, okay, is there something is there something wrong with the cart? Is it confusing? Is it uh are the pricing too high? Is the shipping too confusing, whatever it might be? And then we'll start to put up put out theories of okay, we think it's this, so we're gonna improve that and try to make that easier or make it less confusing or less expensive or whatever the bottleneck is, and then we'll watch that for a little while. And then if if people are more people are getting to the next step, then we just keep doing that until we're trying to get essentially

Customer Journey And Friction Points

7:55

as many people as we can through that entire customer journey. And not all of our clients sell stuff online, it might be filling out a contact form or signing up for a webinar or or downloading a PDF, you know, whatever that journey is, you can do the same thing and and really just uh you know pay attention to what's happening at each step. And it's interesting, I haven't heard client journey in a long time because the first time I was introduced to it was Deloitte came in and wanted to to rebuild our training operation. And you know, oh, we need to look at what the client journey is. And I'm thinking the client journey is to learn how to sell next. But uh, but it it does make a lot more sense now that I've that I've learned a lot more about it, but still, it makes makes good sense to me that that you would want to do that and then be able to to figure out what to go in and change and not just walking in to oh let's make it pretty. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, and that's the huge mistake that we find is a lot of our clients or potential clients will come to us with a site that isn't performing where they want it to be, with the assumption that they just need to throw it all away and start over. And what we see that is usually in that case, they just end up with a prettier version of the same problem. So you know, because you're not really fixing anything, you're just making it look different. Yeah, and so we're we're big proponents of trying to figure out, you know, looking at the analytics that you have, seeing how it's performing, and like I said, just try to remove those friction points and get it to operate as as well as possible, make that customer journey as fluid as possible and enjoyable for the end client. Yeah, I mean, you got to keep them on the site for a period of time, right? Yeah, yeah. Sometimes, I mean, there are you know, we certainly have clients that um you know, journeys are all over the place. Sometimes it's about getting people in and out of the site as fast as you can. They're trying to come and sign them up for something and get up, they don't need to spend all day on the site. Yeah, our other clients, manufacturers that you know, their customers are trying to do complicated purchasing or complicated um documentation research or whatever it might be, and those journeys are a little different, and they're you know, they have more steps and they're more complicated, and they obviously should be spending more time on the site. Scott, one of the things about websites that interests me to some extent is how do you how do you know what what's going on here? And I I guess that's SEO, right? In terms of what people are doing on the site, well, yeah, and in terms getting people there in the first place, I guess, is what what I'm thinking about is how do I how do I get more people to my site? And I've always been told, well, that's SEO, Morris. And sure. Yeah, there's some of that. Um, SEO would definitely be, you know, for anybody who doesn't know that's search engine optimization, and that's essentially the thank you, the work that you do, sure. The work that you do on your site to try to get it to um essentially show up more in Google results and get more people to click on your links and end up in your site. That's kind of the high level of the point of ResEO. And that's certainly one way to get people to the site, but there's you know a ton of different ways now. Um, whether it's through posting on LinkedIn, depending on your

Getting Traffic Beyond Basic SEO

11:21

market, or you know, if you're selling to professionals, it might be uh LinkedIn might be better for you than Google search because maybe people are seeing your content on LinkedIn, or maybe it's Instagram, or maybe it's um you can pay for advertising on Google. You know, there's a there's a lot of different ways. Um we generally recommend trying to figure out where your potential customers are and start with that one channel first and don't try to you know do Instagram and TikTok and LinkedIn and SEO and all these other things all at the same time because you're gonna spend a ton of money and not really accomplish much. So find a channel, figure out which one you think is the best, you know, for your audience and put some time into that at least 90 days, and figure out how you're gonna measure it, whether that's more traffic on the site or more people filling out a form. Um, you know, depending on the channel, your metric could be different. There are dozens of tools that will help you, some are free, some are not. Um that'll help you determine where your audience is coming from, uh what they're doing on your site, and that'll really help you figure out okay, LinkedIn is our number open traffic, so we're gonna keep putting effort into that until we're not getting any better returns, and then we'll find a second channel. Something just popped through my head, Scott. How how do you or do you use uh YouTube kind of videos as part of that in in some way? Well, um we have some clients that use that. That that tends to be a little more for consumer um products. So if you're selling you know more of a consumer product, that's definitely a popular platform. Um, there's a lot of uh strategies on that around sometimes it's just creating informational things, sometimes it's creating entertaining stuff. It really depends on your product and your audience. Um, but it's really the similar effect is you're trying to get information in front of your potential clients and get them to visit your site. So um, you know, YouTube is very effective, it's obviously a huge platform, um, but it can be uh very time consuming, especially for small companies because creating the content, editing it, published publishing it, building an audience. Um, YouTube's very competitive. There's a lot of people on it trying to get a lot of audience. Um for a smaller firm that tends to be a little overwhelming. Yeah, yeah. It's not as easy to produce video as is you know cranking up your camera on your phone. Uh, if you want to do it really well, it's a little more than just turning on your phone and say, hi guys, you know, so there's a little more to it than that, that's for sure. Yeah, and it tends to be a crowded market. There tends to be you know a dozen people already trying to produce content about you know your type of product or your type of service. Yeah. Oh, that makes perfect sense because uh you go in there and you search anything. I've it's been said to me that YouTube is probably the second largest search engine in the world, right behind Google, huh? Yeah, I think that's true. I think Amazon is also up there. Uh surprisingly, people search Amazon for all kinds of stuff now. So they'll it used to be they would search for a specific product, but now they they'll actually search for solutions, right? So they'll search for something to help them do something, not knowing what the actual product is, but knowing what they're trying to solve, whether it's you know something for their house or something for their lawn or you know, whatever. Um they won't be searching just for a specific product anymore, which is what Amazon started. Yeah, I mean the monitor on my computer continuously leans, it continuously goes goes crazy, and all of a sudden it'll be pointed down toward the desk. And I'm thinking, I'm gonna go on Amazon and just Google and see if there's anything that can tighten it up and put it all together. Sure. So I hadn't thought of that until that point in time. That's a good point. Yeah, that's a really good point. That's a growing one for sure. Scott, tell me uh a little about where you begin with someone. I mean, you you look at their side and what you I guess I'm worried, I'm I'm concerned, not get the word right, Morris. I am interested in your process when you get a new client. What do you do with them? Sure. So some of the first things we do is we try to figure out who they're trying to reach. So um, you know, who are their potential customers and prospects? What are their uh attributes and where are those people actually spending their time? So trying to figure out what that first channel is, for example. Is it professionals and LinkedIn is the right answer? Is it manufacturers and you know, maybe it's some specialty site or something like that. So we're really trying to figure out who their site is for and what they're trying to, why they're trying to get in front of those people. Then we then we look at what um what do we want those people, those visitors

New Client Audit And Lead Tracking

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to your site to think or feel or do when they do get there. So what is the personality you're trying to come across? What is the information you're trying to get across? What are the pain points you're trying to solve for your potential clients? And then um, and then really do an audit of is your site currently accomplishing that? So um oftentimes it isn't, right? Oftentimes who your site is speaking to isn't who you're actually trying to sell to, especially if you're a larger company. And for us, we work with a lot of manufacturers. Um a lot of times the sites become very technical or very um, you know, dense with content. There's a lot of manufacturing related content, but those aren't necessarily or engineering type content sometimes. Um, but those aren't necessarily the people that are actually trying to buy from you. So they're they might work with people that are use that content, but they're not the people actually doing the shopping, essentially. So making sure that the site is talking to the right audience within your potential um clients. That makes perfect sense. And then one of the last things you do is try to figure out what are you doing to actually monitor it. So how are you keeping track of whether or not your site is actually doing what you want it to? Because if you don't have that information, there's not a whole lot you can do to really determine what needs to be improved because you don't know how it's working in the first place. Uh and oftentimes we see there's a big disconnect between people have a website, people will fill out a contact form, they'll go into some CRM or some sales process, and then that information is never tied back. So it's sort of disconnected and forgot about as to what did those people do on the website before they became a contact or a lead. Um, and what things on the site are helping drive the leads that are actually quality and the leads that aren't, what are they doing? So you can you can really start to optimize your site to make sure that it's doing more for the client, the types of leads that you do want, and it's doing less of the for the things that for the people that you don't want, so that you're not just trying to increase you know increase your number of leads by itself is not always the great thing if all those leads are garbage. Yeah, and that's the truth, that's for sure. Scott, as I'm thinking about this, I'm thinking about that medium-sized company out there, and I don't know. I my first website cost me ten thousand dollars, and it was nothing to write home about. And since then, I've spent another what, seven or eight thousand dollars on another one that you know it's not proven to do a whole lot more than that. What's the investment to get into working with you to be able to analyze this stuff? I mean, you guys do a lot of analytics beforehand to determine what the problem is so that you're solving the right problem, it sounds like. Sure. So um a lot of our clients tend to be fairly large manufacturers. Um, so oftentimes they'll come to us not just for the need for one website, but you know, we have clients that have a dozen websites because they have a dozen brands that are a little different. Obviously, the amount of time and effort and the people that we have working on those projects is a little larger. Um for a smaller firm, though, I think you know your budget is uh a good place to start. I think the important thing is as you spend additional money, continue to think about is this actually helping to increase anything? Because if you're if you're just putting money into a site that isn't, that's not actually solving a problem that would lead to additional leads or additional customers, then what's the point, right? Yeah, yeah. So and and I think the important is to be able to say, gee, look, I've got a website. And that's not that's not necessarily a good business proposition. Yeah, and I think a lot of times smaller companies assume that they need larger websites in order to compete. And I think that's a mistake because I think oftentimes you're you're just spreading your budget out too much, and you have a lot of content that isn't very effective. Um, you're not able to maintain it, you're not able to improve it. And so you're actually hurting yourself because you're making it too confusing for your end clients to identify with the content that they need to find and to finish that customer journey. Yeah, I've seen I've seen sites that oh my word, all the stuff that's on there. I mean, it would take a day just to to get through it all and take a look at it and decide what you really wanted to do on this thing because there's so much stuff on there. What do you what do you start with, Scott? With with a come to you and I've got uh company and and you know, here's our our what we really want to have happen. Here's the journey we want our client to to take when they get on the prospect to take when they get on the site. What do what's necessary? Obviously, you know, too much is too much, but what do you guys what do you guys believe? What do you believe, Scott? Is the the the right stuff to have on there just To get started, maybe. Well, I think it goes back to that customer journey of trying to figure out what are the minimum steps that your prospects need to complete in order to learn enough about you and your product or your service in order to convert, right? To either fill out a contact form or purchase something or whatever it might be. Right. Um so the first thing we'll do with a client like that is we would audit their content. We'd look at all the content on their site and we'd look at the analytics and figure out there's usually

Cut Content And Simplify Navigation

22:29

you know 30, 40, sometimes more percent of that content that nobody's ever looking at. It might be old blog articles, it might be whatever, you know, more complicated um FAQ type pages, whatever it is. There's there's often an enormous amount of content. The older the site, the more content there is that your prospects aren't even looking at. It's just it's not necessary. So you try to cut that content entirely and really just slim down your navigation on your site to be the as bare minimum as you can. It's a lot easier, we think, to have a site that's too small that has just the high-level basic information. You can always expand on it as you identify that people are getting to this step and they're not moving on. Well, maybe they need a little more information. It's much easier to add a little bit, add a little bit and improve that process than it is to maintain you know, dozens or sometimes hundreds of pages of content that nobody's looking at. It's just it messes up it and muddies up your navigation, it muddies up the user experience, and it makes it very difficult for your end client to find who you are or why they should contact you. And that's the the ultimate prize, if you will, of the whole thing is to be able to get to that point. So that makes that makes perfect sense to me. Yeah, and I think a lot of times if you look at your competitors, especially ones that may maybe are twice the size of you, often the ones that are doing the best have less content than you. They don't have more. They're just very concise and it's very they're very to the point. And when your users get there, they can identify that, yeah, these are the right people. They solve my problem, they provide my the service I'm looking for. There isn't a lot of unnecessary content that's just preventing them from identifying whether you're the right fit or not. And that's I guess one of the things that that blows me away sometimes with certain websites is all of the resources. I mean, put every podcast they've ever been on, every blog they've ever written, and you know, oh, here a hundred checklists that you can use for this, that, and the other. It's like, wow, come on, man. Yeah, it gives it creates a lot of opportunities for your customer to get distracted from the journey that you want them to be on, right? So less is more in a lot of ways because you're trying to keep them focused on moving to the next step and getting to that endpoint, whether it's purchasing or contacting or whatever that endpoint is for you. And if the more content you have there, the more chances are they're gonna veer off in a different direction and then get distracted and never finish that process. Yeah, that makes that makes good sense to me. So I've heard you mention it now several times. So it really does come right back to the client journey that you really want the prospect, the person on the site to to go through, right? Sure. I mean, it's just like if you go to uh you know a store in your neighborhood, especially like a big like let's say a Target or a Walmart or something like that. You know, the stores are very much designed to get you from entering and going through the path that they want you to go and see the products they want you to see, and you end up at the checkout and you go out the out the door, right? That's how the stores are designed, and your site is essentially the same thing. It's crazy, you know. You talk about those big huge stores. I live in Texas, so HEB is one of the biggest grocery store chains in the in the state, and I think it probably goes outside the state, but not too much. And I don't know, I mean it they I I worry about I don't worry about it, but I I am interested in what happens when I walk in that store because the flowers are right there at the front, and the produce is right there, and then it goes into the specialty stuff,

Retail Layout Lessons For Websites

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and then all of the rest of the products are over there on the aisles. And I uh assume that someone was smart enough to say this is what we want people to see when they walk in our store. Yeah, and they and they pay a lot of attention to it. I mean, that's there's a reason why most grocery stores are designed the same way. It's because they've they've determined that people are usually coming in in a hurry for produce, so they want to by the front door. Okay, and you know, their higher margin stuff tends to be on the outsides, their fresher products on the outside, and all the lower margin stuff's in the middle. So the people that want those, you know, box of cereal, they already had it on their list, they'll find their way and they get it out. But what the store wants you to do is to buy all the higher margin stuff on the outside, right? Yeah, I bought my wife a bouquet of flowers for Mother's Day and got to the checkout counter and realized it was 50 flipping dollars worth of flowers. Geez, some pete. That that's the most expensive flowers I've bought in a long time. Anyway, it uh it worked. I bought flowers, but um it's it's amazing to me how that works. And it's the old it's the old shelf space game, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. You know, you want your product at eye level, not way up at the top or way down at the bottom. Yeah, the ones that are at the top or the bottom are the usually the ones that the store makes less money on, right? It's the same thing with your site. You want you want the the information that you really need the customer or really want the customer to absorb, you want that front and center, and you don't want to distract them with all the other stuff. That makes Scott, you make it sound so simple. It really it really doesn't have to be that complicated. I think the biggest mistake that businesses make is trying to do too much, especially when they're small. Because I, you know, I know when we started our firm, just my brother and I, you know, we were trying to look like we're the greatest agency in the country. And you know, we we would try to replicate what 9,000-person agencies were doing. And you know, eventually we figured out that that's just idiotic because we're not that company, nobody's gonna believe that we're that company, and it just makes us look uh unauthentic and and not really it doesn't find us the leads that we were looking for in the first place, right? The the clients, the companies that are gonna go to a 9,000-person firm, they're not a good customer for us. We can't service them, they're not, you know, we've we're two different markets. Yeah so being honest and just really addressing the market of who we are and addressing the market that we want um has made all the difference. Now we're getting the clients that we want to work with and we do our best work for, and it's good for them, it's good for us, everybody's happy, you know. It's uh it's a much better fit, and it's a lot less work than trying to pretend like you're more than what you actually are. Mm-hmm. Yeah, trying to pretend to be something that you're not. That's always much more difficult. There's no doubt about it. Right. Scott, can I kind of change directions here real quick? Sure. Tell me about running your business. You've progressed in this business for 28 years, you've gone from a startup to a very mature, well-run operation. What is what are some of the things that you've learned along the way that you would tell a business owner was in the business for a while yet, but not 28 years. What would you suggest to them? What would you say to them? Look, as you're running your business, fill in the blank. Sure, I think it it's similar to what I would tell somebody with their website, which is less is probably more. And trying to do, you know, you're better off doing one or two things really well and then adding to it instead of trying to do too much all at once because all you're doing then is spreading yourself too thin, you're not really doing any of those services or offering any of those products very

Running A Business With Less

30:42

well. Um, you're much better off being smaller and focusing on the things that you're are your core service or your core expertise and doing that really well and then adding to it over time. Is is that basically how you built your company? Eventually, yeah. I mean, when when we started, we would do everything. You know, we would try to do anything you could possibly think of, even even remotely related to a website. Um and it was just we realized how kind of ignorant it was. And I think one of the things, you know, early on, um it kind of clicked when we were watching some like restaurant makeover show. If you've never seen any of those shows, you know, there's usually some celebrity chef and he comes into a restaurant. Um the first thing they always do is cut the menu down. Yeah, the restaurants are always trying to do 900 dishes and they can't do any of them well, and their food costs are high, and you know, whatever, because they're trying to do too much. And so they come in, they cut the menu down, they focus on doing two or things, two or three things really well and being known for that. And then their company takes off. And it's I think it's the same thing in really any business, especially if you're starting it from the ground up. And that's that that is the uh the New Jersey Diner menu. I mean you can go into a New Jersey diner, so we live there for a while, and and I tell you what, you could have breakfast or lamb or beef or just about anything under the shining sun that your mama used to make for you. I mean, they'll they'll put it together, but you gotta wonder, I gotta wonder how fresh that lamb is when uh when they pull it out of the freezer, if it if it hadn't been ordered in the past six months, you know, or whatever the case. I don't know how you run a restaurant, but uh you know, it always worried me that gee, if I order that, that's not something most everybody will order when they walk in the door. I wonder how long that's been back there in their freezer. Right. Yeah, and you know, your favorite pizza place in town is probably a place that makes pizza, and that's about it. Yeah, yeah, they are, and and everyone's brand new. Right, yeah, you know, so it makes makes perfect sense to me. Scott, you've been a great guest today for the Commission Code. Thank you so much for sharing your expertise and your journey with us. Thanks for having me. And we're good. That was about 30 minutes. Yeah, sounds about right. That works out pretty well. So I think we're in great shape, my friend. Thank you very, very much. I really do appreciate you you doing this. Um, I will drop you a note and let you know when we're gonna publish and uh the link to it, and uh hope you'll share that around and about and all over the place. And we'll see if we can't uh get you some visibility out there. Sounds good. I'm glad uh glad to be here and thanks for having me. Well, you're more than welcome, brother, and I I wish you the very, very best. Same to you. Have a good one. Well, that does it for this episode of the Commission Code Podcast. This is the place where we want to help you find the commission code to success in your business. Remember, go to MorrisStemps.com for more information. And in the meantime, hey, have a great week. Get out there and meet somebody new, and we'll see you again next time right here on the Commission Code. Best wishes on Morris Sims.